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Rick Stengel Interviews with Nelson Mandela
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Rick Stengel Interviews with Nelson Mandela

  • ZA COM NMPP 2009/57
  • Series
  • 1993 - 1994
Audio recordings and transcripts of conversations that Rick Stengel had with Nelson Mandela for the research of Long Walk to Freedom, covering Nelson Mandela's life from 1918-1994.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

First time on Robben Island [8efmxopW4i8]

Many people are unaware that Nelson Mandela was sent to prison on Robben Island twice. The first time was a brief period in 1963, about six months after he had been sentenced to five years in prison for leaving the country illegally and inciting a strike. Initially held at Pretoria Local Prison, Mr Mandela was sent to Robben Island in May 1963 and then, on 13 June 1963, he was inexplicably returned to Pretoria. After he had been there for about a month, his colleagues were arrested and they stood trial together for sabotage in the Rivonia Trial. Mr Mandela and seven others were sentenced to life imprisonment on 12 June 1964. He remained on Robben Island until the end of March 1982 after which he was transferred to Pollsmoor Prison on the mainland. Then, after a few months in hospitals, he was sent to Victor Verster Prison in December 1988 from where he was freed on 11 February 1990.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

John Vorster Biography [3vE_dMLCKfw]

One of the books Nelson Mandela read in prison was the biography of one of apartheid’s leaders, Prime Minister John Vorster. This story about the book also reveals another of Mr Mandela’s characteristics – that he always tries to “take something out” of a situation or an experience. Things and people are usually neither all bad nor all good. He detested what Vorster stood for as Prime Minister of South Africa from 1966 to 1978, but in this conversation he shows that he found something upon which to compliment him.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Visiting Poet [RiHp32yGK2U]

Nelson Mandela always enjoyed telling the story of how dramatically the Xhosa poet Mqhayi had burst into his young world, shattering myths and inspiring him to see beyond the barriers he had taken for granted. His telling and retelling of this story was based on Mqhayi’s visit to his Methodist boarding school Healdtown where he was sent to finish his high school education. His account draws the listener into the late 1930s institution ruled over by the colonial figure of Dr Arthur Wellington, whom virtually no one would question – until onto the stage strode Mqhayi who showed his rapt audience how they were the most important of all people. Mr Mandela ends by explaining that he later did, however, learn that it was backward to be tribalistic.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

How to act in prison [ohmtAJdhA90]

This story about Nelson Mandela’s first imprisonment on Robben Island strongly demonstrates his iron will and indelible sense of dignity that helped him to survive 27 years in prison. He shows, on the one hand, that from day one, the prison warders were determined to treat the prisoners as nothing more than cattle as they tried aggressively to bring them under their control. It was not to be. Mr Mandela immediately took charge and showed how one can turn the tables even in the more dire circumstances. It was this dignity and strength demonstrated by Mr Mandela and that of his colleagues later that marked their imprisonment and subsequent demeanour.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Threatening a warder [puKUgB5g-3Y]

One of Nelson Mandela’s greatest achievements is that he is a qualified attorney. In 1953 he established South Africa’s first black law partnership in Johannesburg with his friend and comrade Oliver Tambo. During his long imprisonment he used his knowledge of the law to full effect and advantage. His answer to brutality and bullying as well as harassment and abuses was to turn to the law, whether it was on his own behalf or to assist other prisoners: he would either threaten to take action or to institute legal action. As this story shows, it became an essential protection.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Not all warders are 'rogues' [y95HF4UAkoQ]

It would have been easy for Nelson Mandela to allow the world to believe that he was physically assaulted in prison. On the contrary, he has publicly said that it never happened to him. It happened to others but not to him. It would also have been easy for him to tar all the prison guards with the same brush – that they were brutes who would never give an inch. Here he paints a different picture; he talks about how they were not all ‘rogues’ – he makes a point of showing the human, and more humane, side of some of his jailers.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Soweto youth arrive in prison [EUeKxTbbqbE]

After the 1976 Soweto Uprising Robben Island and other prisons in South Africa swelled with new prisoners – young people who had taken part in this watershed period in the country’s history. The Soweto generation who had faced down the armed police of the apartheid regime had been killed, driven into exile or captured and jailed. These militant young people brought with them news that the opposition to apartheid that the regime had crushed since the Mandela generation had risen. Hope was at hand. Anti-apartheid forces were again on the march. The older prisoners were inspired.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Langenhoven [x2JG3tW7rwQ]

When Nelson Mandela went to prison he studied the language of the oppressor, Afrikaans. He also studied the history of the Afrikaner as well as their struggle against the British. He read some of the Afrikaans writers in Afrikaans and enjoyed the books. One of the authors whose work he enjoyed was one of South Africa’s foremost writers, CJ Langenhoven, who also wrote the national anthem Die Stem for the apartheid state. Langenhoven was a member of parliament who worked to have Afrikaans recognised as an official language in South Africa. When Nelson Mandela was in prison only English and Afrikaans were official languages. When he became president of the country he included nine African languages.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

CD 23

No unsupervised access to the audio- there is a section that should not be open to the public.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Remembering Qunu [30CFs4Np79k]

While he was born in the Eastern Cape village of Mvezo, the only son of his father’s third wife, Nelson Mandela spend most of his early childhood in Qunu and later moved to Mqhekezweni after his father died. He has always enjoyed returning to Qunu where he built a house after his release from prison in 1990. Uppermost in his mind as a free man was to visit Qunu where his parents were laid to rest. His mother Nosekeni had died in her Seventies in 1968 when her son was imprisoned on Robben Island. As soon as he could, he visited her grave and that of his father Nkosi (Chief) Mphakanyiswa who had died when he was a boy.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Arranged marriage [A8-ftKxqoro]

Once Nelson Mandela had angered his guardian, the King, by getting himself expelled from the University College of Fort Hare, it was decided that the problem would be solved by an arranged marriage. He and Justice, his cousin and the king’s son, were presented with the plan: The King had found them both wives. It was this action on the King’s part that directly led to Mr Mandela’s exodus from the countryside and journey into the rapidly industrialising arms of the city of Johannesburg. It was there that he became interested in politics and set himself on the path to his destiny – overthrowing apartheid.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

CD 27

No unsupervised access to the audio- there is a section which should not be open to the public.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

ANC Youth League [VC6lwBRzb3Q]

Nelson Mandela was one of the founding members of the African National Congress Youth League. In fact he only joined the ANC when the Youth League was founded in 1944. Here he talks about the founding of the organisation and, at the same time, reveals his frankness about his own short-comings: in this case how nervous he was about engaging in political discussions and meetings.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Goose Bay [NWbt4dccZmE]

Nelson Mandela is renowned for his love of children and young people and often speaks of how important they are to the future of any country and the world as a whole. Here he relates an incident that occurred soon after his release from prison as he was en route from Canada to Ireland. In Canada’s Goose Bay he had a few minutes at the airport between flights and decided to go and talk to a group of young people. It turned out that they were members of Canada’s Inuit community and Mr Mandela is unashamed about his ignorance of their culture.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Autograph Hunters [slLztDkrh5I]

As this story reveals, honour is very important to Nelson Mandela. He was not well on a trip to London and put off meeting a group of youngsters waiting outside his hotel. He was forced to bow to their demands, particularly since he had promised to give them autographs. The youngsters waited for hours in the rain for his return from a visit to the British Prime Minister. They played to his honourable side and they got what they wanted.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Ending the armed struggle [e15cCfTLFso]

In the latter part of his imprisonment Nelson Mandela made overtures towards the apartheid regime when he thought the time was right. He was not negotiating, but he was talking to them about the conditions for actual talks between the ruling National Party and the African National Congress. Once he was released from prison on 11 February 1990 he and his colleagues began meeting with the regime. This paved the way for the full-blown multi-party talks at the Convention for a Democratic South Africa (Codesa) which began on 20 December 1991 and ended in 1993 when the date for South Africa’s first democratic elections was announced. Here he talks about the ending of the armed struggle in August 1990.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Holding government to account [QVS3QJJiD5w]

While he was negotiating the end of apartheid and the beginning of democracy, Nelson Mandela addressed thousands of people. He travelled the world and South Africa both to gather continued support for the process and to listen to the views and concerns of his people. Here he talks about addressing a rally in 1993 and explains how he dealt with the militancy of the youth.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Violence in 1990 [f_3iV4ssICY]

Multi-party talks to end apartheid came undone more than once and usually it was because Nelson Mandela led his African National Congress team out of the negotiations in protest. These breakdowns usually were brought about by ongoing violence in the black communities, which Mr. Mandela and his colleagues believed had been caused by the apartheid regime’s collusion and orchestration in the violence. Here he talks about one such incident and an exchange he had with both President De Klerk and the police minister about it.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

CD 57

No unsupervised access to the audio- there is a part that should not be open to the public.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

CD 58

No unsupervised access to the audio- there is a part that should not be open to the public.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Setting the election date [z665tTrAOsg]

Story:
After years of talks about talks, and then actual talks, the parties in South Africa agreed in June 1993 that the country would hold its first democratic elections on 27 April 1994. The elderly, infirm and pregnant women went to the polls the day before. An extra day was added on for voting after it became clear that more time was needed. Here Nelson Mandela talks humorously about a retreat at which the date of the elections was discussed between the African National Congress and the South African government.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Raised by the King [cUcGmBuH1I0]

Nelson Rolihlahla was raised by a king. After the death of his father Nkosi (Chief) Mphakanyiswa Mandela who acted as counsellor to the Thembu King, the child was sent to the royal palace or Great Place at Mqhekezweni. There he was guided and cared for by Jongintaba Dalindyebo, the Regent for the infant King Sabata. Under his watchful eye the young Mandela received a privileged upbringing and received the best education at that time. Hovering around when the Regent held court and dealt with disputes, the future leader learned about dialogue as well as hearing all sides of an argument before venturing his own opinion. These skills stood him in great stead in the years ahead.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

Grapes of Wrath [98y4-a8nD7M]

Robben Island prison had a library for each section of the prison. The libraries were staffed by prisoners and a fair amount of interesting literature escaped the censors who tried to ensure that subversive material did not get into the hands of the prisoners. One of Nelson Mandela’s close comrades, Ahmed Kathrada, was at one stage a librarian in B Section where he, Mr Mandela, and about two dozen other prisoners were held. If books arrived in the library they could be read. Books that just mentioned the name ‘Mandela’ for example did not make it. Here Mr Mandela talks about some of the books he read on Robben Island.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]

War and Peace [_nTT3YpG1QI]

Nelson Mandela is a great reader. At school he read widely, and while in the anti-apartheid struggle, particularly as he was trying to establish a liberation army, he devoured whatever he could on armed struggles all over the world. In prison, he read whatever books he could get his hands on. He is also a great strategist, whether as a young boxer when he strategised about how to outwit his foes in the ring or as a chess player or a political activist, he would always think through his next move. He often spoke of non-violence as a strategy, rather than as a principle. Here he focuses on the strategy of the Russian army.

Mandela, Nelson Rolihlahla [use]